When my 8 year old son called me bro i was secretly super proud. I'm pretty strict with them but once they turn ~21 i'm planning on turning from dad into best friends, just trying to get them raised right to the point i'd want to hang out with them
I always get downvoted when I say this, but until straight men are comfortable saying they slept with a dude or their bro last night, these are not gender neutral terms.
Some women will be ok with the terms and many may use them themselves but gender neutral is a big stretch in my opinion. Bro even more than dude.
Would you greet a group of all women with “hey dudes?”? Maybe. “Hey bros”? Unlikely in many circles. “Hey y’all”? Common.
I always wonder whether it’s a man or a woman who’s says that dude/bro is gender neutral. I don’t think your wife thinks you’re calling her a man, but I’d be curious whether she thinks bro is gender neutral in general (I.e. not referring to her specifically). I suspect many more men than women consider these terms gender neutral.
"Would you greet a group of all women with 'hey dudes/bros?'" If they were my friends, yes. It's becoming more common that women refer to each other as bros as well.
I don't mind if you disagree with. Some people are even on the other end of the spectrum where if you call them "dude" they'll accuse you of a hate crime so 🤷♂️
Context matters though and it changes the meaning of a word depending on its usage. If I'm talking about what my brother did during a family gathering and I say "he cooked," you would take it to mean he cooked dinner for everyone. If I'm commenting on a video he made and I say the same thing, it means I think he's made a great point or whatever. So no, "Hey dude" and "I fucked a dude" are not using "dude" in the same way. In any case, if you don't like being referred to in a certain way, just say so and it should be respected. But these broad proscriptions against anyone ever using the word except in one very narrow meaning is ignoring the ways language changes over time. And yes I'm a woman who uses "guys" as gender neutral, though I don't use it with my trans friends and family bc it's a sensitive issue based on the, yep, context
Definitely agree. I had started typing out a paragraph on how language changes over time and context matters but I was already being long winded.
One thing I have a different perspective on is who should check in on usage. Depending on the situation and comfort, it shouldn’t be left to the addressee to say they don’t like being called dude. It’s a vulnerable spot for many.
It’s also possible someone who’s being addressed won’t say anything but will feel excluded or insulted or any range of feelings. This can damage relationships, the listener may silently judge the speaker, and frankly it isn’t a kind approach from the speaker. So I raise that dude and bro aren’t truly gender neutral terms (in my opinion) when this topic comes up.
I’m not someone’s bro, or a dude. I’m fine speaking up but many people won’t be. I will also judge someone who continues to refer to me as bro despite knowing my personal feelings about it. (Cue Reddit comments calling me bro/dude…because we’re nothing if not predictable)
Finally, I’ll ask you to consider what you think about what you picture when someone says a group of guys were hanging out at the corner. Does your mind picture a mixed gender group or a single gender group? I used to use guys for my female friends but don’t anymore because while I thought it was gender neutral I still automatically pictured a group of men. I stopped, but it doesn’t mean anyone else has to.
well, yes. that's what it looks like to fail a universal case when a universal case has been proposed. it's not gender neutral if an entire subcategory of a gender is very likely to oppose the idea of its neutrality. you cannot simply cast us aside as if we do not exist when you are discussing gender neutrality. the word "valid" isn't some cheatcode that lets you declare a universal truth about something when a clear counterexample is present.
It is only not "gender neutral" to people who are hyperfocused on whether or not they're being misgendered. If someone calls me a bitch should i say "well actually i'm a male?"
They literally just said it is, and they are more then cool with it. What right do you have to tell them they are wrong? Can you not see the irony here?
"Bro" and "dude" aren't gender neutral, even if some people use them that way. I know no trans women who are ok with being called either of those things.
I'm a woman in a very male-dominated field and we're past the go-along-to-get-along stages of integrating women into our workplaces. So we no longer have to pretend to be "one of the boys" just to keep the peace. I'm not a dude or a bro. In my union I'm not a brother.
The comment claims that in this day, "bro" is gender neutral, so I feel it is fair to point out that that is in no way generally the case. It would also bother me. For many people it might be that way, but please don't assume so by default.
who is "they"? the person saying a thing is not the arbiter of whether the thing being said is true, nor whether the thing being said is accepted by others.
i can't tell if you just misread both of us or if you meant to reply to someone else entirely, but this really is not a coherent response.
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u/outlawsix 2d ago
In this day "bro" is pretty much a gender neutral term. I call my wife bro